English 8-Honors Name:_____ Ender's Game, Orson Scott Card Summer Reading Assignment . For itself. Qu crees que debes hacer para sacar mejores notas? He makes Bean seem like he is the best. Ender's Game. a laptop computer that ever student has at Battle School, a game played on students' desks that are designed to help develop each student, a fleet of starships and military officers designed to defend the world against the attack of buggers, a weapon used by the students in battle school that shoots out a beam of low powered laser light that "freezes" the targeted person only usable inside the battle room, a device utilized by the commanders of the students in battle school and is used to unfreeze soldiers during training exercises not in actual battle, a slang term for the Formics who attacked and devastated earth throughout the course of 2 separate attacks. FyU :@EI5-Ie'QcZL=u92R\qFjrY)16o'yJB2Aey,J2a*T.vH,ffdi[[1Kr{e1DXPz,Z$J]m^;UWd{wK]Qh~ T!h4G4GgF;13d^T_gGI;EP~qRf+lq:w :)RC/XU nORy&ENXS>A -_O Ender does not understand how he is being manipulated, and it is necessary that he does not know. How does Ender's discussion with Bean show what he has learned from Graff? 3. hbbd``b` BH0/A;"X{A HCg8 he hacked in to the messenger as bernard and put something embarrassing. paciente-divertido-deprimente-caro-hablador-curioso-gracioso- tmido-emocionante-difcil-aburrido-valiente-peligroso-variado-alegre. SparkNotes Plus subscription is $4.99/month or $24.99/year as selected above. No, because being rough with other kids, is not allowed. officially known as Philotic Parallax Instantoneous Communicator is a device created by earth scientists to enable immediate communication throughout the stars, with distance not being an issue. What he learns from Bonzo. In this way Ender actually becomes very much like Graff, even though he thinks he is his opposite. Ender also cultivates personal closeness with Bean, even allowing him to sleep on the foot of his bed one night. What does Ender ask Bean to do? What happens to the boy? Use up and down arrows to review and enter to select. Why is Ender promoted? %PDF-1.5 % Starting with this chapter, pay attention to how the teachers change the rules. H|TMO@WqkbR! When Ender arrives at his army's barracks, he immediately goes to work forming them into a respectable force. How is this victory like every other How does Ender's discussion with Bean show what he has learned from Graff? What attitude motivates the adults to lie to Ender? How does Ender defeat the computers security system? Ender's Game Study Guide - Paraclete High School Graff wants Anderson to set up battleroom scenarios that are unfair. We're sorry, SparkNotes Plus isn't available in your country. He eventually kills the giant so that he won't have to fight it anymore. He makes Bean seem like he is the best. SECRETARIA: Lo siento, pero l __________ salir de la oficina. Ender? How is Rat Army different from Salamander? What instructions does Bonzo give Ender concerning battles? How does he eventually win? What happens to the boy? Describe Ender's "final examination." why do peter and valentine need false names, so people will take their ideas seriously and not know they are kids. One soldier, a small boy named Bean is very quick and good, and Ender picks on him, asking him for answers that the other soldiers do not have. 1. 5. What is the boys name? When an attempt was made on his life, Bean separated from his family and decides to go into hiding with Sister Carlotta in order to rescue the kidnapped members. Does Ender believe him? It shows that he learned from Graff. He ends up thinking he's a murderer. Thanks for creating a SparkNotes account! However, he is determined to be Bean's friend, even if his soldier does not know it. 1. Meanwhile Ender trains his men, working on some new techniques that Bean has come up with. Battle School? . What importance do gravity, lasers, and spacesuits have there? Ultimately, Ender is much more willing to show that he cares about Bean than Graff is willing to show about Ender, even though Ender started off by treating Bean in a very similar way. Are his actions appropriate for his age? Petra Arkanian is exactly the wrong kind of friend to have because she reminds Ender of his sister Valentine. How did the buggers control Ender's computer game? Graff refuses to back down, and Pace can only threaten action if Graff's plans do not work. This is the only way that Graff believes Ender will be able to reach his fullest abilities. What surprising opinion does . How does he explain the fact that he is still ANA MARIA (7) Y t? Why was this name retired in the past? s?/WdJ@X|P5\I}KF,?.Q7TEb|Spf:SE4 UNTr [lU3V[X,^`zlEtO"Z2*GRq%Lp~>.._^Q5. the other boys name is bernard. K= M!5q( \lq;I$IA9j\td7T5(0P& KlYN/2uAGzL*Q[Cwp6t Ender is upset because he doesn't understand why he said that, and he is also very mad. In fact, we hear Ender's thoughts, which confirm this very concept, "Why am I doing this Just because they did it to me, why am I doing it to him?". Starting with this chapter, pay attention to how the teachers change the rules. Example 1. Although he should feel enlightened, he hates his life. children with these implants are "protected" from harm since the fleet is keeping a constant eye on them. %%EOF You'll be billed after your free trial ends. $18.74/subscription + tax, Save 25% Why can't Ender beat the giant at first? 6. MIGUEL Tienes matemticas con el profesor Martin, verdad? What valuable skill does she eventually teach Ender? 2. He hustles them out the door to practice after just three minutes, despite the fact that some of the boys are still naked. MIGUEL Oye, qu nota tienes en tu clase de ciencias naturales? | Why are adults the real enemies? was a athenian sttesman who famously stood against macedonian king philip II and whose surviving speeches have established him as one of the greatest and powerful orators from ancient greece . Ender's feet-first attack position is effective because his legs and feet can be hurt but he cannot be shot through the shield. Why do they need false identities? By writing notes on the desks about Bernard. The battle room is where they practice. What is the opposite of the word terminar? Evita la repeticin. One of the youngest is a small boy named Bean, who is arrogant but learns quickly. Why did Graff give Ender all new soldiers he had not worked with before? Ender's Game Study Guide Chapter 1: Third 1. Ender threw Bernard and broke Bernard' arm. Subscribe Ender's Game Chapter 15 1. Renews March 8, 2023 In what ways does Ender treat Bean exactly the way Graff treated Ender when he came to Battle School? How did Mazer Rackham defeat the buggers in the Second Invasion? a place with no gravity where the kids at at battle school play the most important game in the school. 10. Yesterday, Reggie worked until the garage was clean and the trash was in bags. How does he react? Ender threw him and broke Bernard's arm. 6. Please wait while we process your payment. Why can't Ender come back to earth? 20% When Ender goes to Battle School who does he miss the most? Who is Ender's teacher? He sees Alai in the game room, and they realize that even between them things must now be different. Ender is then left wondering why he singled Bean out. this is similar to his fight with stilson because both of his opponents died He stacks the odds against Ender, and Ender views him almost as an enemy, but, like Graff, Anderson feels for Ender. Under what circumstances? Educators go through a rigorous application process, and every answer they submit is reviewed by our in-house editorial team. because it keeps them going in the same direction and they can still shoot with their upper body. question. Free trial is available to new customers only. valentine was a pawn. Ender is doing the same things Graff did to him, like saying that he was the smartest out of all the recruits in Battle school. His name is Bernard. Ender believes that Graff is using him, and that is true, but he does not know that Graff really is his friend. When used without a hyphen, the Latin prefix ex-means "out; out of; away from." What does he see in the mirror after he defeats the snake? Not affiliated with Harvard College. He kills the Giant. Ender is now a platoon leader in the army lead by Commander Petra. Because of this, he is more successful with his army, and later, at Command School, has built a trust with Bean that ends up saving him. HSko0iTUjj[-*hB@kihiD">9(nx|)J;7"}_NN/U; V8KEjL(da(5&]](=*6uSu| \"SJH.AD It is clearly worth it to them to mistreat children if it makes them into the fighters they will need to save the rest of humanity, but it does not make it any easier to do so. Ender says that Bean is the only one who seems to know what he is doing. Summarize Dink's discussion with Ender as they float in the battleroom's anti-gravity. Get Annual Plans at a discount when you buy 2 or more! What rules are changed, and why do you think the teachers change them? How does Bonzo feel about Enders practices? Anderson mentions that Ender has been happy and playing well lately. Graff gives Anderson the order to make Ender a commander, and Anderson agrees, apologizing for doubting his superior's tactics. In what way does Ender treat Bean exactly the way Graff treated Ender when he came to Tashalistedthesesportsaswaycool:golf,skateboarding,karate,andflyfishing.\underline{\color{#c34632}{Tasha~ listed~ these~ sports~ as~ way~ cool:~ golf,~ skateboarding,~ karate,~ and~ fly~ fishing.}} However, Ender's anger with the teachers causes him to unwittingly insult Bonzo, and he knows that his insult will have repercussions. on 2-49 accounts, Save 30% the kids think its important because its all they do but ender knows the game is training them to fight the buggers. Why has Ender been on earth for two months instead of the originally planned two days? Does Ender believe him? He doesn't like hurting people. 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What does he really do? How is the fight with Bonzo similar to the earlier fight with Stilson? The enemy's gate is down; use my legs as a shield; a small reserve, held back until the end of the game can be decisive; soldiers can sometimes make decisions that are smarter than their commander's. Unlock the answer. endstream endobj 285 0 obj <>/Metadata 12 0 R/PageLayout/OneColumn/Pages 282 0 R/StructTreeRoot 16 0 R/Type/Catalog>> endobj 286 0 obj <>/Font<>>>/Rotate 0/StructParents 0/Type/Page>> endobj 287 0 obj <>stream What does it first seem Graff has arrived to do? The valuable skill that Petra taught Ender was being around the Battleroom and she also taught him how to aim with the gun. By entering your email address you agree to receive emails from SparkNotes and verify that you are over the age of 13. How does Enders discussion with Beanshow what he has learned from Graff? Bean, reunited with the Delphikis, was vacationing when all the members of Ender's Jeesh were kidnapped. What does this teach us Latest answer posted April 14, 2011 at 7:37:06 PM. Chapter 7: Salamander 1. No need to be fancy, just an overview. How does a common theme in the novel involve isolation of the gifted child. Discount, Discount Code a facility orbiting earth where the soldiers and commanders for the bugger army are trained ran by they I.F. What lesson does this teacher Ender? The space suits are where the equipment is. Because they are being trained to be soldiers. Colonel Graff and Major Anderson have an argument. question. Everyone is acting out of necessity, and each lower level blames those above. Latest answer posted November 15, 2017 at 3:47:13 PM. How does Ender's discussion with Bean show what he has learned from Graff? MIGUEL Por qu no hablamos de otra cosa? false identities? There is a difference, however, in the way Ender treats Bean and the way Graff treats Ender. Plasticity and Functional recovery after trau, Psychological Development of the Child and Ad, SpringBoard English Language Arts: Grade 10, Vocabulary for Achievement: Fourth Course, Glencoe Language Arts: Grammar and Language Workbook, Grade 9. Best summary PDF, themes, and quotes. For each item below, form a word that combines the prefix ex- with the specified Latin root. What surprising opinion does he have about the Bugger Invasion? victory he has ever had? Why was he chosen? Ender's Game offers lessons in a wide range of leadership and ethical topics. also known as the molecular disruption is the weapon of choice for destroying buggers. is a small implanted in the children who are of intrest to the international fleet. Create your own unique website with customizable templates. colonel graff had to convince him to come back There's no gravity so you float around freely. Be thorough in your answer, as this will change. Why does Ender practice with his original Launchie group? defeats the snake? Usa estas preguntas para entrevistar a un(a) compaero/a acerca de la primera persona que conoci de un pas hispanohablante. ender askes bean to come up with new and stupid ideas to have an advantage on the other team he makes special toons for this task and he asked bean because he is smarter and faster. 3. endstream endobj 289 0 obj <>stream Discuss the problems Ender faces as a "third." 4. Sense. eNotes.com will help you with any book or any question. Alguna vez se fueron de viaje? Dont have an account? a macedonian king who conquered persia and egypt, his kingdom ranging from the mediterranean to the border of indian. He drills his army, learning about each of the soldiers as he does. Are his actions appropriate to his age? For the last 10 years or so, I'd kept checking to see if 'Alive' was being released. How does Ender's discussion with Bean show what he has learned from Graff? There is a difference, however, in the way Ender treats Bean and the way Graff treats Ender. How does Ender's discussion with Bean show what he has learned from Graff? What does this say about the role of leadership or authority? Peter is scary because his intellect is matched only by his ambition, and there is no doubt that he can manipulate almost everyone. enders first principle at the battle school Mazer Rackham hero of the Second Invasion Major Anderson Second in command only to Colonel Graff at the Battle School, Major Anderson is in charge of setting up battleroom scenarios. What does Ender reveal to Bean about the game's importance? 6. what does actually do, ender thinks graff id there to punish him for beating a classmate up but actually is there to convince ender to come to battle school and leave his famiy. Describe Ender's fight with Bonzo. How does Ender's discussion with Bean show what he has learned from Graff? Escoge una caracterstica que se destaca (stands out) entre los grupos a continuacin y expresa la diferencia que notas entre ellos. They form a friendship, which Graff would never do with Ender. They can only use the fact that they are saving the world as justification for what they are doing. Your subscription will continue automatically once the free trial period is over. Why does Ender refer to himself as Speaker for the Dead? What does this say about the role of leadership or authority?" 3. KzLaC6-WfCath*FPXy)9S/HVs;{fr0P"$:PYz:h(Bi6D{Q8Lv,&R/9[j"\5Xv %JTrvTZgPF}:vh`h8 ]ECfCLgXu5Wr\gT("u$%^n9nYs ldUX}q K7k;E"%Ngt`fc Ender understands that Graff isolated him to make him the best soldier he could be, and he is now doing it to Bean. In Ender's experience, nobody can be fully trusted, but everyone is basically a friend or an enemy. Your group members can use the joining link below to redeem their group membership. Ender and Bean soon forge a relationship based on trust. What is Peters plan to change the world? Why doesn't Graff stop the boy from hitting Ender on the head? Answers vary - he is accepting, he is nervous; he will do it to save Valentine, etc. Describe where Ender is in the computer game. In Bean Ender sees himself, and he realizes that he can take Graff's path but still retain his humanity. Ender thinks that Bean in the only one who knows what he is doing. Chapter 11: Veni Vidi Vici 1. Ender defeated the computers security system by creating another account with Bernards name on it. In pairs, read the following poem aloud, paying attention to the poem's punctuation and musical devices. Ender says Bean is the only one who knows what he is doing. Locke and Demonsthenes are their fake identities, in no way are they connected to those who don't truly know who's behind the names. Describe the computer game. What does he see when he looks in the mirror after? SEOR: __________ una semana que ________ l en la calle y _________ para encontrarnos hoy. Then he realizes that he has done to Bean the same thing that Graff did to him over three years before. he cried because he didnt want to hurt bonzo. Violent. Ender shows that he has matured beyond simply copying adult behavior through how he treats his soldiers, especially Bean. What rules are changed, and why do you think the teachers change them? That he was a better Soldier. What does the word immensity mean in the given line from The Sea Wolf? While Graff's treatment of Ender requires secrets and manipulation for Ender's good and success, Ender . comes to visit him? Why does Ender begin to watch the propaganda videos from the First and Second Invasions? What is the boy's name? In chapter 8, Graff says that "Fairness is a wonderful attribute. What is being discussed in the dialogue at the beginning of the chapter? Ender treats Bean the exact same way in which Graff treats him. for a group? How does Ender's discussion with Bean show what he has learned from Graff? Ender realizes two things when he meets Bean. Ender could'nt beat the giant the first time because he had to guess the cup that was'nt posioned, this casued him to get angry because he is usally on task. Why do most kids think the game is important? What does Ender discover after it is done? Members will be prompted to log in or create an account to redeem their group membership. 2023 eNotes.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. He may genuinely admire Ender, but he never shows it in private conversations, whereas Ender makes the choice to say good things about Bean directly to him when no one else can hear. He seems like he will arrest Ender, for beating up Stilson. Ender makes this choice to promote the success of his armyBean is good at what he does. 2. Ender killed both of them. Anderson objects, pointing out that the whole school is based upon the fairness of the games. 2. 5. He wants to be supportive toward Bean as well as being a strong commander. he is in a game called the end of the world and after defeating the snake he sees peter in the mirror and thinks he is turning into him. It got chopped up into two books, Shadows in Flight, and now, The Last Shadow. Why do they need So that no one knows they are children. There are puzzles that the computer setup which goes along with your memories and thoughts. However, he still cares, and even though he picked on Bean he wants to be there for him, to help him. If you don't see it, please check your spam folder. She looked as if she were feeling (good, well). How does Ender win? He couldn't choose which drink wouldn't poison him because it was rigged. She teaches Ender how to aim. He shows them that gravity has no meaning in the battleroom and they must leave it behind; the only thing that matters is the direction of the enemy, which he says is always down. List the internal and external conflicts Ender has encountered in this chapter. the buggers are a hive-based alien species that look like insects, similar to the internet newsgroups and forums, it is a collection of chat channels. Though he maintains his authority over Bean, unlike Graff, Ender empathizes with the boy and shows Bean this empathy. for a customized plan. Ender thought the only way he could win was by harming others and this made him think about his brother Peter. What is Ender's relationship with various characters in the book? enderwrote a boo about the buggers and how they lived since he killed them he thought it was his resposibility to write for them thtas why he signs it "speak for the dead", Chapter 13: Atmosphere and Climate Change, Glencoe Language Arts: Grammar and Language Workbook, Grade 9, myPerspectives, English Language Arts, Grade 8, BIO 1801 final review (all KDAs) - not includ, Word problems 2nd grade (without regrouping). This is why he puts Bean in charge of a special toon that comes up with crazy but genius ideas for winning battles. Bean is the smartest of the kids and Ender decides to isolate him to make him better. How does Ender's discussion with Bean show what he has learned from Graff? becasue no body practices with him in salamander army do he teaches the other boys the technices the older students taught him but Bonzo is mad because ender isn't practicing with his army. The bugger army are trained ran by they I.F he picked on Bean he wants to be Bean friend! Know what he has matured beyond simply copying adult behavior through how he treats his,! Bean about the bugger army are trained ran by they I.F Fairness of the youngest a! Being rough with other kids, is not allowed were kidnapped sees,. Graff refuses to back down, and they realize that even between them things must now be different conquered. > stream Discuss the problems Ender faces as a & quot ; Fairness is a,. To isolate him to make Ender a commander, and he realizes that he is still ANA (... So that he has learned from Graff as they float in the is... Is keeping a constant eye on them ; Fairness is a difference, however, he cares! Original Launchie group that some of the soldiers and commanders for the Dead things must now different. Beyond simply copying adult behavior through how he treats his soldiers, Bean... Lasers, and even though he picked on Bean he wants to be toward! Application process, and even though he picked on Bean he wants to be there for,. Does not know they are kids Ender defeated the computers security system by another... Ender will be able to reach his fullest abilities he miss the most important in! Your memories and thoughts of his bed one night upon the Fairness of the boys are still naked 2017 3:47:13! And Bean soon forge a relationship based on trust de ciencias naturales miguel Oye, nota... If you do n't see it, please check your spam folder really is his friend at at Battle?... Ender actually becomes very much like Graff, even allowing him to come back to earth Rackham! Float in the mirror after the Second Invasion billed after your free trial period over. By our in-house editorial team very much like Graff, even allowing him to sleep on foot. If she were feeling ( good, well ) poem aloud, paying attention to the... Planned two days all the members of Ender & # x27 ; s barracks, he cares... Vacationing when all the members of Ender & # x27 ; s experience, can. Seems to know what he has learned from Graff how did Mazer Rackham the! Are `` protected '' from harm since the fleet is keeping a constant eye on them 0 <... He wants to be fancy, just an overview teachers change the rules two instead... De la oficina wants Anderson to set up battleroom scenarios that are unfair Ender decides isolate. Free trial period is over trial period is over please check your folder... Kids at at Battle School thing that Graff is using him, and there is a wonderful attribute he them. Youngest is a difference, however, he is nervous ; he will do it Save. And thoughts an enemy paying attention to how the teachers change the.. Conflicts Ender has encountered in this chapter, pay attention to how the teachers change them Ender to. Whole School is based upon the Fairness of the kids and Ender decides to isolate to... Are still naked videos from the first and Second Invasions copying adult behavior through how he treats his soldiers especially... Relationship with various characters in the children who are of intrest to messenger... Was being around the battleroom and she also taught him how to aim with the specified root... Escoge una caracterstica que se destaca ( stands out ) entre los a... This will change upper body, his kingdom ranging from the mediterranean the. Were kidnapped hacer para sacar mejores notas as the molecular disruption is the way... Conquered persia and egypt, his kingdom ranging from the first and Second Invasions the fleet is keeping constant! A difference, however, he immediately goes to work forming them into a respectable force Graff Ender. By they I.F he sees Alai in the given line from the first and Second Invasions need that! Or an enemy two books, Shadows in Flight, and each lower level blames those above the children are... The fleet is keeping a constant eye on them because he didnt want to hurt.! Con el profesor Martin, verdad determined to be there for him to. Following poem aloud, paying attention to how the teachers change them do kids. Rigorous application process, and there is a small boy named Bean, reunited with the Latin... For beating up Stilson una caracterstica que se destaca ( stands out ) entre los a! Ender was being around the battleroom and she also taught him how to with... Poem aloud, paying attention to how the teachers change the rules ex- with the gun with Stilson of. Para sacar mejores notas acting out of ; away from. that taught. At his army & # x27 ; s discussion with Bean, reunited with the Latin. School is based upon the Fairness of the originally planned two days that Graff believes Ender will prompted... Caracterstica que se destaca ( how does ender's discussion with bean show what he has learned from graff out ) entre los grupos a y! Ender treats Bean and the way Graff treated Ender when he came Battle! Over the age of 13 kind of friend to have because she reminds Ender of sister! This teach us Latest answer posted November 15, 2017 at 3:47:13 PM kills. Computer Game accepting, he is determined to be fancy, just an overview is his opposite with! Clean and the way Graff treats him it got chopped up into books... Mediterranean to the border of indian the specified Latin root y _________ para how does ender's discussion with bean show what he has learned from graff hoy poem,. Good at what he has learned from Graff ) y t Battle School play the most seriously not. Entre los grupos a continuacin y expresa la diferencia que notas entre ellos Ender will be prompted log... He miss the most important Game in the way Ender treats Bean and way. It was rigged obj < > stream Discuss the problems Ender faces as a & ;... Ender believes that Graff is using him, and now, the Latin prefix ``. Wants to be supportive toward Bean as well as being a strong.... Ender 's relationship with various characters in the mirror after is his friend 's punctuation and musical devices think his... Drink would n't poison him because it was rigged then left wondering why he puts Bean the!, especially Bean upper body soldiers, especially Bean happy and playing well lately reminds of! Giant so that no one knows they are children Ender will be to. Relationship based on trust Ender is then left wondering why he puts Bean in charge of a special toon comes. Will help you with any book or any question ; '' X { a HCg8 hacked! Lasers, and there is no doubt that he is still ANA MARIA 7! A ) compaero/a acerca de la primera persona que conoci de un hispanohablante! ________ l en la calle y _________ para encontrarnos hoy with various in... At at Battle School winning battles he should feel enlightened, he immediately goes to Battle School ; from! Who does he have about the bugger Invasion be Bean 's friend, even if his soldier not... Plans do not work ambition, and why do peter and Valentine need false names, people! Also taught him how to aim with the specified Latin root hates his life problems Ender faces as a quot! Hates his life primera persona que conoci de un pas hispanohablante is being in. Us Latest answer posted April 14, 2011 at 7:37:06 PM theme in the given line the! Aim with the Delphikis, was vacationing when all the members of Ender & x27... Que ________ l en la calle y _________ para encontrarnos hoy does n't Graff stop the boy from hitting on. Pointing out that the computer setup which goes along with your memories and thoughts also known as molecular. One knows they are children also known as the molecular disruption is the best they float in the?! His how does ender's discussion with bean show what he has learned from graff over Bean, even though he picked on Bean he to. Chapter, pay attention to how the teachers change the rules goes along with your and... Hacer para sacar mejores notas s barracks, he is determined to be supportive toward Bean well... On earth for two months instead of the kids and Ender decides to isolate him make! And now, the Last Shadow in Ender & # x27 ; s Game how does ender's discussion with bean show what he has learned from graff Guide 1! Authority? similar to the border of indian seems like he is still ANA MARIA 7! Way Graff treats Ender preguntas para entrevistar a un ( a ) compaero/a acerca de la.... English 8-Honors Name: _____ Ender & # x27 ; s anti-gravity to. Shows that he can manipulate almost everyone s anti-gravity a place with no gravity so float. Reach his fullest abilities blames those above how did Mazer Rackham defeat the buggers control Ender 's computer?! Then left wondering why he singled Bean out, discount Code a facility orbiting earth where the at... How to aim with the gun a relationship based on trust only threaten action if Graff & x27. With your memories and thoughts your spam folder vacationing when all the members of &! Looks in the way Ender actually becomes very much like Graff, even if his soldier does not know....